Now, we’re still in the month of love, and this is a time when relationships come under a bit of a spotlight. But how many of us truly understand what makes a relationship thrive? It’s clear, especially in today’s conversations—whether online or in person—that we often overlook the foundational aspects of healthy relationships.
To help us navigate this, we spoke with Marizanne Naested owner of Love Counsel, a relationship and sexuality counsellor with an academic background in communications and sexology. With over 17 years of corporate experience, she has now transitioned into her own counselling practice, focusing on what truly makes a difference in people’s lives.
“I enjoy uplifting people and helping them become the best version of themselves,” says Marizanne.
But what does that mean in the context of relationships? Whether in romance or business, the same principles apply. Strong relationships require emotional safety, trust, open communication, and mutual respect. Marizanne has outlined ten essential foundations for any relationship, but today, she expanded further by explaining seven psychological and strategic principles that shape successful relationships in both personal and professional settings.
The seven deeper principles
If we go under the surface of relationship management, we begin to see that success isn’t just about compatibility or shared interests. It’s about deeper psychological and emotional alignments. Here are the seven principles Marizanne highlights:
- Energy management over time – Relationships are not just about initial connection but sustaining energy and effort over time. Quality engagement is key, connection.
- Unspoken agreements and psychological contracts – Understanding the expectations—spoken and unspoken—that shape relationships. Overcoming assumptions and creating long-term compatibility.
- Controlled vulnerability and strategic authenticity – Knowing when and how to be open without overexposing oneself. Timing and context of vulnerability as opposed to being manipulative.
- The power of absence and scarcity – Recognising that time apart can strengthen bonds and desire.
- The paradox of independence and interdependence – Balancing personal autonomy with mutual reliance.
- Narrative control and perceptions management – Shaping how we tell our story and how others perceive us. The importance of storytelling and story sharing in relationships.
- The law of diminishing emotional returns – Understanding that overexposure to certain emotional experiences can reduce their impact over time. Novelty, surprise and intentional appreciation.
Unspoken Agreements and Psychological Contracts
One key principle Marizanne focused on is the concept of unspoken agreements and psychological contracts. “In every relationship, there are expectations—whether they’re said out loud or not,” she explains. These could be as simple as expecting a partner to support you when needed or assuming certain habits will change after marriage. However, when these unstated contracts are broken, tension and conflict arise.
“We need to communicate, clarify, and consider that these expectations exist not just in personal relationships but in professional settings as well,” she adds.
In the workplace, this concept applies when employees enter an organisation under the impression that the culture is supportive and inclusive, only to find that reality does not match the expectation. “If a company hires someone with the promise of a great work environment but then treats them poorly, it violates an unspoken agreement, and that employee is going to react to it,” says Marizanne.
Breaches in Psychological Contracts
So, what happens when these invisible agreements are broken? “This is where communication becomes crucial,” Marizanne emphasises.
To address these breaches, she suggests:
- Acknowledging and expressing feelings honestly.
- Clarifying expectations on both sides.
- Actively listening to each other’s perspectives.
- Practicing self-compassion and creating a safe space for conversation.
“People are not products. You can’t just discard them when something doesn’t work. In business and in personal relationships, you have to work with what you’ve got,” she reminds us.
The future
With her degree in sexology nearing completion and her counselling practice steadily growing, Marizanne is excited about the future. “I want to focus on fully establishing my practice and creating a permanent space for it,” she shares.
Beyond her professional goals, she is committed to being present for her two boys, fostering their love for nature, and helping them connect with the African wilderness. “I love getting them to understand the language of nature,” she says.
And while she is planning to take on a few short courses before fully committing to a master’s degree, her core mission remains the same: helping people build stronger, healthier relationships—whether in their personal lives or the workplace.
“At the end of the day, relationships shape our experiences. The stronger and healthier they are, the better our lives become,” Marizanne concludes.
Building lasting relationships, whether in romance or in business, is about understanding deeper psychological dynamics. By applying these seven principles, we can create stronger, more fulfilling connections—ones that stand the test of time and change.
Listen to the episode
Links
Website: Love Counsel
Transcript
Kami 00:00:04 – 00:00:58
You’ve just tuned into InnoStation, where the latest and hottest topics are always on air. I’m your host, Kami, and each episode will be serving up some heat with fun chats, fire insights and special guest appearances with a couple of surprises along the way. Now, we’re still in the month of love, and this is a time when relationships come under a bit of a spotlight. But most of us don’t really know what actually makes relationships thrive. And that’s evident in, like, a lot of the conversations that you will see online, perhaps in person as well. So we have Marizanne Naested joining us today. She’s a relationship and sexuality counselor who will break down her seven key principles of successful relationships. From bedroom to boardroom, we’ll explore how the same foundations that support a healthy romantic relationship and sex life can also lead to better outcomes in the professional arena.
Kami 00:00:58 – 00:01:01
Marizanne, welcome to InnoStation.
Marizanne Naested 00:01:01 – 00:01:03
Thank you, Kami, for having me.
Kami 00:01:03 – 00:01:12
Thank you for being here. Now, I think to start us off, let’s have you let us know who you are and what fuels your inner fire.
Marizanne Naested 00:01:12 – 00:02:09
Hi, I’m Marizanne Naested from Johannesburg. I come from originally quite an academic background. I have an honours in communications as well. And now I’m about to graduate with my honors in sexology. I have done a number of short courses as well through the years of things that interested me in terms of upbuilding people from exercise science, group exercise, fitness and counseling children. So in general, I’m someone that enjoys uplifting people and being part of them, becoming what they want to become, the best of what they want to become. I’ve had over 17 years of experience in working in corporations. So I’m now venturing over into my own counseling practice to focus on what really makes a difference in people’s lives and to be present for my two boys and my family.
Kami 00:02:09 – 00:02:16
Amazing. Marizanne. And is this new path something that you’ve always wanted to do or is it something that you sort of find along the way?
Marizanne Naested 00:02:16 – 00:02:24
Yeah, I’ve always wanted to, but I’ve for the last four and a half years really actively worked towards it. Very hard.
Kami 00:02:24 – 00:02:49
Yeah, I love that. Love that. Now, you did mention that you are graduating this year. Congratulations. You’ve put together seven key principles that make an awesome and stable relationship and we want to get into that. But I think first let’s start off with you giving us a basis for what you rooted these seven principles in and then we can sort of go through each one.
Marizanne Naested 00:02:49 – 00:03:24
Right. So when we started planning our chat, we spoke about wow. What is a healthy sex life? What is a healthy relationship? And how does that speak to healthy relationships in business? Now, myself being someone that focuses on sexuality and relationship counseling, but also having a big leg of that be somatic trauma release work. I have to mention up front that trauma affects so much of how we communicate.
Kami 00:03:24 – 00:03:24
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:03:24 – 00:03:46
And a lot of how we communicate gets affected or skewed or agitated by previous traumas that have affected us. So then I thought once you told me, right. What’s those alignments between what creates a healthy sex life and for me that means a healthy relationship.
Kami 00:03:46 – 00:03:46
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:03:46 – 00:03:57
And what creates healthy relationships in the work environment. And I looked at it and I found there’s the. The 10 things you have to always do regardless.
Kami 00:03:57 – 00:03:58
Right.
Marizanne Naested 00:03:58 – 00:04:43
And then we’ll focus on seven specific extra deeper principles that are focused for today. But whenever we talk about a healthy relationship, we need to remember the first 10. There has to be emotional safety and trust. So the partners have to feel secure, respected and emotionally safe. There has to be open, compassionate communication and active listening that has to be there, otherwise you’re going to have breakdowns that you’ll pay for later. There has to be mutual respect and boundaries. There has to be consistency and reliability for a relationship to be emotionally safe.
Marizanne Naested 00:04:43 – 00:04:56
There has to be constructive conflict resolution and problem solving. Then we have to have a level of adaptability, flexibility, and growth. It can’t just be stagnant.
Kami 00:04:56 – 00:04:56
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:04:56 – 00:05:31
We have to have emotional intelligence and empathy. There has to be a value exchange or reciprocity of some level. There has to be shared goals and vision, alignment. And there has to be celebrating successes or acknowledgement of successes. For me, that is the bread and butter. So we can’t talk deeper about what else and what we have to remember. So everything in terms of the seven that I’m going to mention, assume that the first ten are in place.
Kami 00:05:31 – 00:05:33
Yeah, definitely.
Marizanne Naested 00:05:33 – 00:05:47
We can’t go next. We can’t say only the seven make a successful relationship in personal and in business because it needs to first be underpinned by the 10 that I’m mentioning beforehand. Right.
Kami 00:05:47 – 00:05:55
Yeah. And I think that was a good thing to note that like you can’t. The seven are an add on, not you need the foundation of the 10. Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:05:55 – 00:06:54
Yeah. So then you wanted me to just name the seven first to say, what are the seven deeper principles? If we go under the surface of relationship management. So what are the more psychological and strategic aspects in personal and corporate life that I’m going to focus on today? Energy management over time, unspoken agreements and psychological contracts. Thirdly, controlled vulnerability and strategic authenticity. Fourth, the power of absence and scarcity, which links to number five, the paradox of independence and interdependence. And then six, narrative control or narratives and then perceptions management. And seven, the law of diminishing emotional returns around that.
Kami 00:06:54 – 00:07:00
Yes, those sound incredible. So let’s get into each one now. Let’s break it down.
Marizanne Naested 00:07:00 – 00:08:14
So energy management over time, right. When I’m in a personal relationship, it’s not about how much energy I’m investing, it’s about whether I’m truly present. Am I giving quality attention? Is there quality engagement, connection? It can include conflict. But in the age of phones, where we’re always seeking more excitement or soothing from our device, we need to look at how much can I face the discomfort of being in the now, which is important for our growth and our learning, but also important for us to truly, truly connect with someone. So much of our relationship is being had via devices or being interrupted by devices. And the same goes for in a corporation, to be honest. But let’s take it at a company level or at a business level, at a bigger level, not just employees being on their phones often and not necessarily being able to concentrate on what they’re doing or having a lot of interruptions. Now there’s a team’s message, now there’s an email, now there’s suddenly someone walking in because you don’t have offices half the time you have open plan.
Marizanne Naested 00:08:14 – 00:08:48
So there’s a lot of interruption and you struggle to be truly present for what you’re doing. Yeah, but a step further. Companies often obsess over time efficiency, but the real success comes from managing energy, motivating employees, ensuring meaningful engagement and creating an intentional top down culture. So I’m saying in an age of AI, let’s not get into a tizz about little things we have to do. Surely AI can do something, some of that for us so we can really focus on the big picture and what we’re trying to create.
Kami 00:08:48 – 00:09:19
Yeah, and I think that is actually very important because I think we get so caught up on like the small things and it’s like no, put people where they can deliver the most value. And I think it’s the same in relationships as well. Everybody’s always like, spend more time with me, spend more time with me. But it’s like if the person you’re with doesn’t have the bandwidth right then to spend that time with you, then it’s not really quality time. They’re kind of just there and that doesn’t really satisfy, like the need that you had in the first place. So I think that’s a really good one.
Marizanne Naested 00:09:19 – 00:10:02
Yes. Truly allowing connection. I was speaking to a cool colleague of mine the other day. He was too nervous to tell his girlfriend that the sneakers she bought him for her for her birthday, for his birthday, were the right ones that he liked or didn’t like. And so he wasn’t that into it. And instead of opening up to say, let’s make this a point of getting to know each other, let’s go, let’s venture towards connection. A person would rather go, oh, that’s nice, and then move on, but then you haven’t had the chance to truly connect, Truly connect with that person. She was begging for connection. She made an effort. So. Yeah.
Kami 00:10:05 – 00:10:08
And she might buy you the same sneakers next year then.
Marizanne Naested 00:10:08 – 00:10:16
So. Yeah. Energy management over time management. Not just about how much time we spent together, it’s. Are we really investing energy?
Kami 00:10:16 – 00:10:18
Yes. Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:10:18 – 00:11:06
Secondly, unspoken agreements and psychological contracts was something I wanted to hone in on. So in our personal relationship, in every relationship, there’s some unspoken expectations. You’ll be there for me when I need you, or we support each other without asking, or certain habits that you’re going to have within the relationship or change once we get married or not change once we get married. Breaking these unstated contracts can cause tension and conflict. So we need to communicate, to clarify, and we’ve got to consider that that goes even into our sexual scripts, what we’re expecting, how we think things will progress, what’s normal and not normal.
Kami 00:11:06 – 00:11:08
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:11:08 – 00:11:55
So we need to communicate deeply about those psychological contracts or unspoken agreements that we think we’ve got. Whether it be a life goal, a core belief, a relationship expectation, we need to align them for long term compatibility. And we will. As the relationship develops, we’ll get more and more aligned. From a business perspective, employees and clients are also coming in with implicit expectations. And if a company hires someone under the impression that there’s this great work culture, but then treats him kind of poorly and they start seeing the culture is not that great, it violates an unspoken agreement and they’re going to react to it. So we got to manage these invisible contracts.
Kami 00:11:55 – 00:11:56
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:11:56 – 00:12:22
With proper communication, proper initiation and thinking about what’s relevant for each generation. Newer generation of people, employees coming in and you’ve got to have your office a lot more relevant. Yeah. Why must I be here? Why can I not just work from home or the restaurant or some other spot with Wifi?
Kami 00:12:22 – 00:12:23
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:12:23 – 00:12:44
Why must I be here, give me relevance. So again, that might be an invisible contract or an unspoken agreement that someone new comes in with or someone that comes from a company that’s had a lot of work from home and then coming into a company where there’s a bigger expectation to be at the office. Those things need to be clarified.
Kami 00:12:44 – 00:13:03
Yeah, definitely. So Marizanne, what happens if like, because these contracts are not like on paper and you don’t have a voice recording of someone promising you this thing, what do you do then when there’s a breach in like this agreement, in this unseen unspoken agreement?
Marizanne Naested 00:13:03 – 00:13:28
Well, this is where communication comes in, doesn’t it? We need to first acknowledge our feelings and be able to say, this is how I’m feeling. We need to clarify expectations and communicate openly about what those are from both sides. Right, both sides. This is how I’m feeling about the situation. This is my expectation. And let’s be quite frank about this.
Kami 00:13:28 – 00:13:28
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:13:28 – 00:13:50
And then listen to each other’s perspectives. Listening is very important in communication and finding the way forward together. Within that though, we’ve got to practice self compassion and create a really safe space for the conversation. Those would be my guidelines on that.
Kami 00:13:50 – 00:14:21
I think those are really good and I think they work out really well both in personal relationships and in the workspace. Because I think it is important to sort of communicate, I think even out the gates, like what you expect. I think oftentimes these unspoken agreements sort of come up because we just get into the flow of things and this is just how we do things. But then it’s like the same way. We didn’t have a conversation about this. What we’re doing is the same way. Like one of us can just stop showing up and then it’s like you’re upset but it’s like not.
Marizanne Naested 00:14:21 – 00:14:22
Yeah.
Kami 00:14:22 – 00:14:28
Because it wasn’t like a thing that was established. So communication really is important and remembering.
Marizanne Naested 00:14:28 – 00:14:37
That it is a relationship, let’s never lose sight of that because we’re in an age in a culture in which we can go, oh well, that doesn’t work for me. Goodbye.
Kami 00:14:37 – 00:14:38
Yeah. Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:14:38 – 00:14:49
You can’t have a long term relationship, whether it be in business, whether it be at home. You can’t have a long term relationship. If you’re just going to say, okay, that doesn’t work for me.
Kami 00:14:49 – 00:14:51
But that is very true.
Marizanne Naested 00:14:51 – 00:15:05
I would go and say, right, I’m dealing with people. People are not products. I can’t just shove it aside and find an upgrade. Yes, I’ve got to work with what I’ve got and I’ve got to work as constructively as possible with what I’ve got.
Kami 00:15:05 – 00:15:11
That is very true. Now, Marizanne, take us into your third point, your third key principle.
Marizanne Naested 00:15:11 – 00:15:20
Right, third principle. Control, vulnerability and strategic authenticity.
Kami 00:15:20 – 00:15:20
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:15:21 – 00:16:11
So from a personal perspective, being vulnerable definitely deepens connections, but there is such a thing as over sharing or exposing too much too soon. And that can backfire. So we need to know when and how much to share. Because flooding can lead to stonewalling. And stonewalling means you get your husband home and you start telling him everything was terrible about your day and he just goes, he closes up and he hardly communicates during the dinner. He’s just so overwhelmed with how much more might come at him after a long day. Clearly I’m a culprit sometimes, right? From personal experience. But that is what can happen in a lot of relationships. It is true, don’t flood to the point of stonewalling.
Kami 00:16:11 – 00:16:43
Yeah. Now, you spoke about controlled vulnerability, right. And I think it makes sense within a professional setting because you can’t necessarily show up as like your full emotional self in that setting. But I think in a relationship it sounds a bit odd because you often hear that like vulnerability and you just say to yourself, like vulnerability is the thing that sort of builds stronger connections. Right. So what is controlled, controlled vulnerability? Like what does that actually mean?
Marizanne Naested 00:16:43 – 00:17:16
Right. So you’re right. We know in corporations why or in business why it’s important because brands and leaders who show controlled vulnerability and admitting their mistakes and share their struggles and they’re authentic, they can win loyalty. Yeah, to a point. If they do it too often and without purpose, they can start seeming weak and manipulative. Even in our personal life, that guy that comes and it starts being manipulative. How much there is, you know, there’s vulnerability about themselves.
Kami 00:17:16 – 00:17:18
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:17:18 – 00:17:56
But controlled vulnerability really means bringing out your vulnerability when it is the right safe environment, not all the time. When it is right and safe. When I can see my husband’s had all his dinner and he’s calm, the kids have gone to bed. Then I tell him, oh, I want to tell you about this thing that happened today. Are you ready to receive what I’m going to share with you? You don’t have to fight for me, you don’t have to think of a solution. I want to share it with you. Better in time for me to be really vulnerable. And then strategic authenticity.
Marizanne Naested 00:17:56 – 00:18:16
What is that? It’s being genuine and true to yourself, but mindful of how, when and where you express the vault of authenticity. So balancing honesty and emotional intelligence. Not reckless with over sharing because timing and context is key.
Kami 00:18:16 – 00:18:41
It is very important. Yes. And, I like that strategic authenticity because I think that you will hear a lot of people will say, oh, that’s just how I am or I should be able to be myself like everywhere. And it’s like, yeah, but which part of you. You can’t bring every part of yourself to every party. It has to be like you need to move a certain way in certain environments, in certain rooms, like code switching.
Marizanne Naested 00:18:41 – 00:18:41
Right.
Kami 00:18:41 – 00:18:51
It’s important. So sure. Nobody’s trying to put a bar on you being yourself. It’s just about knowing, as you said, when and where.
Marizanne Naested 00:18:51 – 00:18:57
Yeah, yeah, read the room. Which part of myself do I want to bring out in this room?
Kami 00:18:57 – 00:19:01
Now let’s go into your fourth point.
Marizanne Naested 00:19:01 – 00:19:42
The power of absence and scarcity. One of them, I’m about to talk about the two that’ve been the hardest for me in my personal relationships. So in terms of personal relationships, sometimes stepping back does in fact make the heart grow fonder. Ghosting someone entirely or disappearing for four days. But it is stepping back and giving someone else a chance to come closer. Yeah, people often appreciate and value things when they’re not constantly available. So that’s, that’s one of the things I wanted to talk about on the personal side.
Marizanne Naested 00:19:42 – 00:20:13
Corporate, of course, a brand, a product, a leader that’s always on can lose their impact sometimes. Scarcity, exclusivity and a bit of strategic causes can cause demand and increase perceived value. We’ve seen that a few times in South Africa with certain products going off the market and then coming back on and people jumping right on because they really miss that product. Would you like me to go on to number four?
Kami 00:20:13 – 00:20:17
Ah yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:20:17 – 00:20:24
About an example of specifically a product, not knowing whether I could mention one or not. I thought, oh, stop thinking about this.
Kami 00:20:24 – 00:21:02
Because I think this is a conversation that has also been going on online a lot of like these self proclaimed dating coaches online will say like you need to be unavailable a little bit, you need to be a little bit aloof so that they feel like, you know, you’re not always there. So they vie for your attention and they’re vying for yours. And it’s a bit of a more dark psychology way of approaching that principle. But I think it is that absence makes the heart go fonder and people want more of what they get a taste of versus just being flooded with the whole plate and eating until you’re stuffed, you know?
Marizanne Naested 00:21:02 – 00:21:20
Yeah, but I’m gonna help you. Point five. It’s gonna help you. But what do I do while I’m waiting? Yeah, because that’s gonna be the thing. Because what I’m suggesting in number four sounds like acting and playing. Right. I almost look like I’m not available. Oh, must I reply now? It brings out that feeling.
Marizanne Naested 00:21:20 – 00:21:51
But I’m not saying that. Yeah, point number five will clarify because here we go into the paradox of independence and interdependence in relationships. And I’m going to touch on differentiation and how important that is. And I think if we look at differentiation, it’s going to help tell us, well, what am I doing while I’m waiting? You’re working on yourself. You’re growing, you’re focusing on you. Right. You’re not waiting, you’re growing, you. So it is.
Marizanne Naested 00:21:51 – 00:22:17
In the healthiest relationships, there’s a balance between independence and connection. If one person is too dependent, it creates pressure. If they’re too dependent, it creates that pressure. If they’re too independent, it creates distance. So strong relationships thrive where both parties bring value into the relationship without losing themselves.
Kami 00:22:17 – 00:22:18
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:22:18 – 00:23:16
David Schnaux’s book Passionate Marriage talks about differentiation. And this was Game Changer when I learned more and more about differentiation, where you might have mutual growth. Both of you have growth in your own world, but shared values. And it’s so important to still work on your own growth. And that’s why I wanted to bring up this independence, interdependence, and differentiation today. Because even in a company, companies that foster employee autonomy while maintaining a strong collaborative culture perform best. Likewise, businesses that partner with others rather than trying to do everything alone, they create more resilient, scalable models. So if you come in and you’re only going to do what you do on a daily basis and not work on yourself in your own time, you’re going to be adding less and less value and something special for the company.
Marizanne Naested 00:23:16 – 00:23:40
You’re just going to become a product of them. And they originally brought you in because you brought in something different. Some of your uniqueness made them stronger. And I’m saying hold on to some of that. Keep differentiating, keep growing, keep still adding your independence. But there has to be shared values.
Kami 00:23:40 – 00:23:40
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:23:40 – 00:23:46
And I want to go on your own mission the whole time within the circle.
Kami 00:23:46 – 00:24:25
Yes. And I think it’s very much like a relationship between an avoidant and anxiously attached person. And that could be like a relationship between, like, you’re saying an employee that is very comfortable with just how things are and somebody who wants to grow. I think that sort of dynamic can also breed resentment in the person that actually has the desire to grow. But just. But because they feel boxed in, don’t they? It feels very much like when the avoidant partner is like, oh, don’t do this. I don’t want to do too much. Then the anxious partner gets a little bit more resentful because it’s like, well, what’s happening here? Why you never.
Kami 00:24:25 – 00:24:55
Why you never. But the other person is also resentful because why are you always. And I think even in an organisation, I want to grow. Why must we always. Or why must we always be doing things together? Why must we always be grouped in? And the organisation is also like, hey, why are you not innovating? Why are you not more creative? Why are you not more so? I think, yeah, it is. It is. It’s crazy how that works, actually, because you would think showing up all the time would be the solution.
Marizanne Naested 00:24:55 – 00:25:02
Yeah, it’s really a tricky one because you’ve got to keep holding on to that. Do we have mutual growth and shared values?
Kami 00:25:02 – 00:25:03
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:25:03 – 00:25:35
In a relationship, it can so easily become one person that wants to go this way. And it doesn’t speak to their collective values. Like when you put A and B together, what are their collective values? Do you want to operate within the safe space or do you want to just go on a mission there, which is completely not within the value system of the relationship. That does get dangerous if you haven’t gone together and said, okay, I really want to grow in this. It still serves us in this way. I really want to grow in this. It still serves us in this way. Okay, can we.
Marizanne Naested 00:25:35 – 00:25:36
Does that work for us?
Kami 00:25:36 – 00:25:37
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:25:37 – 00:25:52
And we need to keep considering that as a company. Because as much as we differentiate, still bring in your special. If you’re going to completely start doing something different to actually move away from the company, that’s not going to build your relationship.
Kami 00:25:52 – 00:25:53
Right, Right. Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:25:53 – 00:25:55
So it’s just a delicate dance.
Kami 00:25:55 – 00:25:59
It really, really is. Now, let’s get into your next point, Marizanne
Marizanne Naested 00:25:59 – 00:26:33
Number six, second last one is all around narratives and perceptions management. But I want to. When we think about narratives, I also want us to think about stories and storytelling. So in our personal relationship, a relationship is shaped by the story people tell themselves. So if you see someone is always letting you down, never remembering anything, you’ll filter everything they do through that lens.
Kami 00:26:33 – 00:26:34
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:26:34 – 00:27:30
If you view a relationship as growing and you focus on the progress and on creative problem solutions. You’re gonna see, gonna see the relationship like that. Okay, so the stories we tell ourselves, really important, but also sharing stories, really important. John Gottman especially focused on the idea of love maps. Stories you know, about each other and stories you can tell each other to create that deeper connection. Because really creating shared meaning is one of those things that John Gottman really focuses on and accentuates in his writings. In a corporate sense, of course, we understand that companies and leaders must shape narratives around their brand, culture, and value. If you don’t, employees, customers and competitors will do it for you.
Marizanne Naested 00:27:30 – 00:27:54
And bottom up culture creation can be a problem for you. So we understand why storytelling is important there. It’s about creating culture, but also storytelling is a key leadership trait. Being able to be strong at storytelling makes you a more effective leader. We know of course what needs to lead the story. It is this strategy. It needs to be aligned.
Kami 00:27:54 – 00:27:56
Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:27:56 – 00:28:06
So I did want to focus on the importance of sharing stories and how we share stories for us to build relationships.
Kami 00:28:06 – 00:28:36
Now you mentioned love mapping. Right. I want to get into it a little bit more in terms of actual relationships. What does that look like? Right. Because I think in a business sense it’s very much the leader who comes and establishes the story and you, everybody else buys into it. There is a very clear path in terms of like, this is what, what we’re doing here. And then people find value in that and it’s like, oh, I want to be a part of that. But in a relationship between two people, what does that look like?
Marizanne Naested 00:28:36 – 00:28:55
So love mapping, so it’s a process of deeply getting to know the other person, values their interests, their goals, their emotional world, building trust, building rapport, deeper connection, whether it is your partner or your colleague.
Kami 00:28:55 – 00:28:56
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:28:56 – 00:29:26
We want to understand each other’s career goals, each other’s, and other’s motivations. Because in business that means you can be a better leader to them. Valued and loyal, but the same in a relationship. You can have someone’s back so much more if you know what makes them tick, what works for them, what doesn’t, what they would do if they want a lot of money in the lotto, what their priorities are for the next five years. You’re just so much more connected.
Kami 00:29:26 – 00:29:58
Yeah. I think my follow up question to that then is like, how do you do that without sounding like an interview? Because I think in a business you absolutely can just hand out questionnaires and be like, hey everybody, let’s chat about this. We’re trying to move in this direction. Tell us what you think or tell us what you’re looking to have us implement. But in a relationship, how do you make that not sound like an interview? Because, yeah, you very much would be like, yeah, tell me what your goals are for the next five years. And then it’s like.
Marizanne Naested 00:29:58 – 00:30:51
But that’s not, I think, to be really upfront about the fact that it’s a love mapping exercise. If I read Seven Principles that Make Marriage Work, I think it is by John, you’ll see there’s a lot of questions around love mapping. Love mapping really gets extreme, extensively explained and gives you a lot of questions to work through together. So as a cozy date night thing, because it is really fun and you just have two or three questions per evening because you really get into discussing those and connecting over those and dreaming because you’re creating a future together and you’re understanding how your futures lock in together. So I would, I would really suggest that book because the love mapping section is super detailed and you just say, no, we’re going to discuss. Here’s the question. Slowly work through them over the next three months. No pressure.
Marizanne Naested 00:30:51 – 00:30:54
It’s for fun. It’s our fun dream time together.
Kami 00:30:54 – 00:31:07
That’s a cool tip and I think we will link that book in the description for anybody that is interested in doing that activity together. But we have one more point left. Yes.
Marizanne Naested 00:31:07 – 00:31:45
Diminishing emotional returns. So in our personal relationship, we know the first time someone does something nice to you, it’s amazing. It feels so special. But by the 10th time, you might barely notice it or you’re getting quite used to it. It’s now sort of a precedent. That’s been said. So relationships do require novelty, surprise and intentional appreciation to stay fresh and engaging. Now that intentional appreciation for me is especially important because we do go through periods in relationships when we’re not able to be as novel.
Marizanne Naested 00:31:45 – 00:32:32
Like, you can’t just go buy a new outfit or do your fresh hair because there’s school fees to be paid, there’s running club fees, there’s this, there’s that, there’s a lot going and you’re feeling really depleted. So how times like that, when you don’t have a lot of spice, you can add to the dish. How do you show intentional appreciation, which does bring us to love languages, doesn’t it? Like, how does that person understand your appreciation? And that’s a whole other rabbit hole. But that’s important that intentional appreciation in a new way that seems new that isn’t just like, yeah, you thank me today. Cool, Whatever. Because yeah, I don’t hear it anymore. Unfortunately, there’s a diminishment and how much it means.
Kami 00:32:32 – 00:32:33
Yeah.
Marizanne Naested 00:32:33 – 00:33:14
In corporate owned businesses, of course, same thing. So companies may rely on certain rewards, incentives or marketing tactics that through time will lose its impact. So companies, employees and partners need periodic reinvention. It might be new experiences, new ways of recognizing them, strategic changes to remain engaged and loyal. The same incentive scheme you had four years ago no longer is interesting. It’s part of the background. What else? What’s new, what’s fresh. It changes, freshens minds and hearts when you do it.
Kami 00:33:14 – 00:34:01
And I think a great example of something like that happening is actually with how, with media events, right. Talk to media events and engage with some of the media. People just like to have casual conversations. And a lot of them will say like, companies don’t refresh what, like the, what goes in the goodie bag. You know, because I think on the back end it’s when you’re not on the receiving end of the goodie bag, it’s like, yeah, we can throw in what we threw in last year. But these people don’t necessarily, yes, they go to a lot of events, but they also notice what goes into the goodie bag. They keep stock of who did what. And the sentiment genuinely from one guy that stuck with me was he said there was a year where a company gave them jackets, they had a winter event, they gave them like these winter jackets.
Kami 00:34:01 – 00:34:26
And he still has his and he still wears it because it was such a great gift and it was so well thought out. And I think that is the thing is like you need to keep refreshing to stay top of mind, you know, and that is like a corporate example. But do you perhaps have an example of that in like romantic relationships as well or in like personal relationships, like how you refresh your appreciation?
Marizanne Naested 00:34:26 – 00:34:45
Wow. Wow. Wow. It could be something as simple. Simple as what we call the boyfriend call. You know, when you’ve been in a relationship for a while, you’ll speak to each other in the morning and you’ll speak to each other in the afternoon after work. You won’t have that catch up call necessarily in the middle of the day. We say, well, I’m traveling.
Marizanne Naested 00:34:45 – 00:35:40
I just wanted to give you a boyfriend call to be like, how are you doing? What’s happening today? What’s exciting? The things you used to do every day when you were dating and forget later on in marriage. Because you’re so busy with everything that’s going on. So cheap. Easy way to just stand out and jump out and change someone’s day. Intentional appreciation is those small things we notice about what the other person likes and getting them something on the way back home or just making things just the way they like it at home, which doesn’t cost any money. So those small things. But we got to also think about where do I really surprise my partner? Where do I go? You know what? I know this is so your vibe and so so not my vibe, but I’m gonna come into your world and connect, and that can also be really. That’s really important.
Kami 00:35:40 – 00:36:23
I think that’s actually a really good tip. Yeah, thanks for that, Marizanne. And thank you for those seven key principles as well. I think there was a lot of value shared in that, and I think you went a lot deeper than, like, what you would typically be finding if you just went and you searched up, like, what makes relationships five and how can I, like, sort of build a more successful relationship? So that was awesome. And before we close off, we just want to get to know a little bit about the women behind the business and counseling. You have a wide array of hobbies, and dancing is one of them. Do you have a specific genre of music that you like to dance to?
Marizanne Naested 00:36:23 – 00:36:54
It’s almost everything I’ll dance to. I do, like, poppy things as well. Things with a good beat, things with some good bass. I think everyone dances more. So, yeah, just dancing to anything that’s really easy to dance. Unfortunately, because I’ve got two young kids, I’m having to dance to a lot of genres that really only apply to my 6 year old. A lot of crazy songs came through, unfortunately.
Kami 00:36:54 – 00:37:04
Oh, my goodness. But I mean, it’s. It’s a nice change from, you know, just adult music. It’s nice. I mean, I had fun dancing to Baby Shark with my little cousin.
Marizanne Naested 00:37:04 – 00:37:14
So there we go. A lot of that, A lot of that. Not enough, you know, deep, bassy options for me going.
Kami 00:37:14 – 00:37:21
Now, when your degree is finished and your business is all settled in the world, what is next for you?
Marizanne Naested 00:37:21 – 00:38:01
Right? So, yeah, a lot of time on fully establishing the practice this year, getting a permanent space. And then I want to be involved with my two boys as much as possible. I want a lot of time for them in nature. I love them getting to know the African bush animals, languages, the language of nature. I do have a short course or two that I want to still do this year before I go into it fully. Just commit to my masters the whole time between. I want to manage that. And I, yeah, just love going to beautiful spaces in nature.
Marizanne Naested 00:38:01 – 00:38:14
Considering a heritage trip to where I was born. I love the sea and getting back to the sea every year. Vitamin C is a must. Yeah. Maybe some trips to the Free State as well.
Kami 00:38:14 – 00:38:42
Awesome. Awesome. Now Marizanne, before I let you go, I would love to play a round of hot takes with you. How it works is I’m going to give you a series of rapid fire questions and you’re just going to answer hot or not depending on how you feel about the topic. Don’t be nervous, it’s just light questions. How do you feel about a guided nature walk?
Marizanne Naested 00:38:42 – 00:38:43
A must.
Kami 00:38:43 – 00:38:44
Okay.
Marizanne Naested 00:38:44 – 00:38:47
Coaching and mentoring. A must.
Kami 00:38:47 – 00:38:50
Yes. How do you feel about astrology?
Marizanne Naested 00:38:50 – 00:38:53
Enjoy it. Always curious. Interesting.
Kami 00:38:53 – 00:38:57
Yes. It’s a little something to get into.
Marizanne Naested 00:38:57 – 00:39:01
Enjoy it. We’re here. We humans enjoy the experience.
Kami 00:39:01 – 00:39:06
Yes. How do you feel about limiting screen time?
Marizanne Naested 00:39:06 – 00:39:18
Key in relationships. But screen time can also give you so much access to knowledge and information. So double edged sword.
Kami 00:39:18 – 00:39:23
Now you’re also a reader. How do you feel about reading communities like BookTok?
Marizanne Naested 00:39:23 – 00:39:28
Oh, I love books. More in love with audiobooks currently.
Kami 00:39:28 – 00:39:28
Okay.
Marizanne Naested 00:39:28 – 00:39:40
Looking forward to having time to read again one day because I am always an avid reader. I have had to go to audiobooks because of all the studying. Looking forward to somewhere in my late 40s having time to read again.
Kami 00:39:40 – 00:39:44
Yeah, no, I think there’s just something about a physical book that just does it.
Marizanne Naested 00:39:44 – 00:39:46
The smell.
Kami 00:39:46 – 00:39:55
Not the smell. You’re a book sniffer. How do you feel about cave diving?
Marizanne Naested 00:39:55 – 00:40:02
Cage diving, short cage diving or any cave diving. Claustrophobic
Kami 00:40:02 – 00:40:07
Okay. How do you feel about sharing your password with a partner?
Marizanne Naested 00:40:07 – 00:40:08
My past.
Kami 00:40:08 – 00:40:20
Your password. Like your phone password. How do you feel about sharing phone passwords with partners? Okay. How do you feel about love bombing?
Marizanne Naested 00:40:20 – 00:40:23
Depends on whether there’s a negative intention behind it.
Kami 00:40:23 – 00:40:27
Okay. And there is positive love bombing.
Marizanne Naested 00:40:27 – 00:40:30
It’s like being loved a lot. Okay.
Kami 00:40:30 – 00:40:32
I like that perspective.
Marizanne Naested 00:40:32 – 00:40:41
Loving a lot, that’s cool. But love bombing with that intention to be manipulative and abusive or whatever afterwards. Not so nice.
Kami 00:40:41 – 00:40:45
Yeah. How do you feel about cat cafes?
Marizanne Naested 00:40:45 – 00:40:54
Cat cafes. Oh, important for mental health but not so much for allergies. So. So pop an allergex before you go in and do it.
Kami 00:40:54 – 00:41:00
True. Actually. And how do you feel about activity based dates?
Marizanne Naested 00:41:00 – 00:41:04
Oh, love it. I mean.
Kami 00:41:04 – 00:41:09
And matchmakers, how do you feel about them?
Marizanne Naested 00:41:09 – 00:41:11
Love a good yenta. Yeah.
Kami 00:41:11 – 00:41:32
Okay, well that brings me to the end of the hot takes questions. Marizanne, thank you so much for joining us today. If you’ll please link your social media and maybe your website so that anybody that is looking to get some counseling for you or just look a little bit more into what you’re getting up to can find you.
Marizanne Naested 00:41:32 – 00:41:49
Yeah, sure. I’m gonna give you my www.love counsel.co.za. And on Instagram I can be found at Marizanne underscore Naested Counseling. But we’ll definitely have to link that because that surname is a lot.
Kami 00:41:49 – 00:42:02
Yes. No, we will have all of that linked in the description box for everybody to find. But thank you so much for joining us today and giving us those seven key principles. That was awesome. And thank you for tuning in as well.
Marizanne Naested 00:42:02 – 00:42:04
Thank you, InnoStation.
Kami 00:42:04 – 00:42:04
Bye.