Craig Kensley’s story begins in Bellville, Cape Town—a modest, working-class upbringing that shaped the values he cherishes today. This foundation wasn’t one of struggle but of stability, instilling a deep sense of rootedness that now echoes in his own family life. Happily married with two beautiful daughters, aged 16 and 11, Craig reflects on the ‘normalness’ of his childhood as a guiding force in his personal and professional journey. His genuine, down-to-earth approach shines through in every word and action, reminding us that true progress often stems from strong, humble beginnings.
NGO work and social investment
Craig’s career has always centred around the non-profit sector, where he witnessed a dynamic shift in the funding landscape. Recognising the evolving needs of funders and NGOs, he saw an opportunity to make a lasting impact. This vision led to the creation of a development consultancy that bridges the gap between available resources and meaningful social progress. By offering professional services in sustainability and ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) frameworks, his agency GrowZA aims to create a shared language of impact—ensuring resources are not just distributed but effectively activated.
“Our play into the market is about responding to the needs of funders and multinationals,” Craig explains. “We help them deliver on their promises, accelerating social progress through well-structured development funding.”
The missing link in community development
According to Craig, one of the critical gaps in community development is the lack of professional stewardship. “You wouldn’t ask a plumber to build a wall,” he analogises, emphasising the importance of expertise in driving real impact. Many approach community work with the best intentions but lack the structured, professional perspective needed for sustainable change. True development, he believes, requires more than weekend charity work—it demands thoughtful planning and expert guidance.
He highlights the essential distinction between charity and development, stressing that well-intentioned efforts can fall short without the right strategy. “Development funding needs shepherding,” Craig notes, advocating for responsible stewardship to ensure resources truly benefit the communities they aim to support.
Bridging employment gaps with dignity
Craig acknowledges the generational challenges in redefining what constitutes a ‘good job.’ Traditional perceptions—where office jobs symbolise success while trade skills are undervalued—persist. This mindset, he suggests, needs to shift to recognise the dignity in all types of work. “We need 30,000 artisans annually in South Africa, but we’re only producing half that,” he points out, highlighting the skills gap.
By collaborating on global research projects, including initiatives on the future of digital work, he aims to reshape these narratives. The gig economy offers both opportunities and challenges, and understanding this evolving landscape is crucial to ensuring dignified, sustainable employment for future generations.
Finding beauty in every corner
Outside of the world of social investment Craig has a love for photography. When asked about his dream photography location, Craig’s enthusiasm shines through. Currently in Delhi, he describes the experience as a sensory feast. However, his heart remains rooted in South Africa, with special affection for underrated gems like Hogsback in the Eastern Cape. For him, home is not just a place but a collection of moments and memories. His family’s journey, captured through his lens, reflects the beauty of everyday life.
An untapped opportunity
In our quick fire round of hot or not Craig revealed that he sees immense potential in urban farming, viewing it as a vital component of sustainable communities. Beyond the environmental benefits, he emphasises its role in fostering local connections and intergenerational learning. Urban farms, he believes, can make agriculture more appealing to young people, offering a tangible, hands-on connection to their communities.
“We’re building hyper-local supply chains,” Craig explains. “It’s about feeding ourselves and each other, creating vibrant spaces where young and old can connect.”
Craig’s thoughtful words and deep insights reflect a man committed to meaningful change. His journey from Bellville to leading transformative projects underscores a simple but powerful truth: real progress begins with grounded values, professional expertise, and a genuine connection to the communities we serve. His story is not one of rags to riches but of roots to impact—a narrative of humble beginnings blossoming into profound social contributions.
Episode description
In this episode of InnoStation, host Kami and guest Craig Kensley from social investment agency Grow ZA engage in a profound discussion covering urban farming, filmmaking, and the urgent issues facing South Africa’s job market. Craig shares his expertise and vision for sustainable development and community impact.
Key topics covered:
- The critical role of urban farming in promoting sustainability and community cohesion
- Insights into Wes Anderson’s filmmaking influence and its broader implications
- An in-depth look at South Africa’s unemployment crisis and emerging vocational opportunities
- The significance of professional involvement in community development initiatives
- The value of self-expression and documentation in personal photography
Listen to the episode
Guest Information – Craig Kensley
Craig Kensley is a bridge-builder, a systems thinker, and a passionate advocate for equitable development. As the Executive Director of GrowZA, he leads with a deep belief that the future isn’t built by resources alone—it’s built by connection.
Guided by principles of Just Transition and the Community Capitals Framework, Craig works at the intersection of enterprise development, social impact, and policy innovation. His career spans high-impact projects in renewable energy, youth development, and skills transformation—each driven by the conviction that communities already possess the potential they need to thrive. His role is to align purpose with possibility.
Craig’s leadership style is rooted in relational integrity and adaptive strategy. He collaborates with governments, enterprises, and civil society to co-create solutions that are just, sustainable, and transformative. He believes that economic development should restore dignity, that social investment should heal systemic wounds, and that true progress is always a shared journey.
Links
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Craig:
Transcript
Kami 00:00:04 – 00:00:24
Now joining me today is Craig Kensley, the founder and executive director of GrowZA social investment agency. He’s here to give us insights into the current South African social investment sector and what organisations can do to up their social investment game. Craig, welcome to InnoStation.
Craig Kensley 00:00:24 – 00:00:27
Hey, thanks very much, Kami. Thanks for having me.
Kami 00:00:27 – 00:00:32
Awesome, awesome. Thank you for coming. Now, I think to get us started.
Craig Kensley 00:00:32 – 00:00:45
When Kami invites you somewhere. Sorry, When Kami invites you somewhere, then you make sure that you arrive. So I just want to say I felt compelled but very happy.
Kami 00:00:45 – 00:00:57
Well, I appreciate you being here, Craig. Thank you. Now I think let’s help the audience to get to know you a little bit. Tell us who Craig is and what fuels your inner fire.
Craig Kensley 00:00:57 – 00:01:41
Yeah. So I’m a boy from Bellville in Cape Town and a pretty ordinary kind of working class upbringing and a very special kind of rootedness. I think as a result of that, it’s not yet a rags to riches story. It was never ragged. You know, the kind of normalness of how I grew up, I really value, and what my parents installed, I think it translates now into my family life. I’m very happily married to a beautiful woman. We have two gorgeous daughters, 16 and 11.
Craig Kensley 00:01:41 – 00:01:51
And that really is at the core of my mind and my heart. And then everything kind of radiates from there. So that’s me.
Kami 00:01:51 – 00:02:08
Oh, lovely. Family oriented. Love that. Now you are the founder, as we said, of GrowZA social investment agency. Tell us a little bit about the agency and what inspired you to get started.
Craig Kensley 00:02:08 – 00:03:52
I’ve worked in the NGO and nonprofit sector my entire professional career and saw the landscape shifting, particularly the funding landscape. And then what grew into, now the social investment landscape, we saw that shifting in interesting ways. The way I’ve always activated is as a development consultant, this space building white label professional services offerings with and for development players and NGOs. What we then saw was this particular shift and funders needing an additional level of professional services support. How that manifests is really in terms of this new and growing discipline of sustainability, a deeper understanding of what ESG could be and the language that wraps around that and effectively our play into the market and our contribution is this move towards the shared language of impact and how we activate development funding and resources to accelerate social progress. So that’s the point of synthesis for us, is responding to the market, seeing that there are development resources available and there are quite significant growth opportunities available where we are able to do incredible work and have really, really profound impact. And we position ourselves there to support funders, to support multinationals in delivering on that promise.
Kami 00:03:52 – 00:04:07
Awesome. Now tell me, Greg, in your personal opinion, how would you say that we’re doing in the social investment landscape in South Africa? And do you think we have a lot of opportunities in this space?
Craig Kensley 00:04:07 – 00:05:11
Yeah, I think it depends how you look at it. You know, there’s obviously many layers and levels to it. I think from a legislative and a policy perspective, we have a very progressive kind of set of frameworks that inform the space. So I think we’re doing well from a base perspective to have demonstrated the will to have hardwired a pipeline of revenue and of support to communities. So I think from that perspective there’s a lot to be positive about. I think in terms of practice it is shifting and any kind of shift, there are challenges. A comment that I’ve made to you when we’ve had previous conversations is that a lot of the spend is discretionary and so you have development actors or funders who are able to inform their own development agenda. That presents.
Craig Kensley 00:05:11 – 00:06:44
It’s a double edged sword, right? It presents the set of opportunities in that they are sometimes open to being advised and open to what the sector needs and what the professionals in the sector are sort of building. There’s the other, the blunt end of the sword which really speaks to the fact that you often have those who are not development professionals making decisions about the directing of development resources, which brings with it an inherent set of risk, really. So not challenges, challenges, of course, but risk. Because the work we do in communities, these are lives, these are people. And the work we do has an impact both negative and positive. And then this understanding of what sustainability looks like does become quite gray when there is all this discretion. So I’m not advocating for an overly regulated sector, certainly not that, but certainly kind of trying to draw out of the market an openness to saying, well, what is this shared agenda? I mean we have many global mandates, if I could call it that, frameworks and so on. Very important discussions, very progressive work that’s being done around ESG, for example, around the SDGs, important conversations happening at C20 and B20.
Craig Kensley 00:06:44 – 00:07:01
The question becomes what does that mean in Hammanskraal? And that’s the nexus, you know, that’s where we are looking to, where we partner and that we look back to it.
Kami 00:07:01 – 00:07:24
Now in a previous conversation that you had, you stated that the African turnaround story is going to be founded from outside of Africa because we export so many of our resources into other countries. From what you’ve observed, why are we so quick to sell our resources instead of using them in the country?
Craig Kensley 00:07:24 – 00:08:53
I think that maybe we euphemise it when we say we export so much of our services. We have a very deep colonial history on the continent of course, and I’m not an historian, but I think a lot of where we find ourselves now is a product of trade agreements, is a product of colonisation, is a product of where our people and our communities find themselves. We need only kind of zoom into the South African context and see just from a spatial planning perspective where communities have been placed and what that means in terms of the movement of goods and services and the economic dynamics that play out as a result of that. So I think it’s really a compounded position that we find ourselves in now. And I’m not an economist, right? I’m a social investment specialist. So from an economics point of view, from a layman’s perspective, I’m saying that there’s a lot of pressure in terms of how resources move out of the continent and that’s a very well established pipeline of how resources move into the continent now it’s moving against the flow in a sense. And more and more what’s happening is that the new leadership is coming in and saying hold on, let’s have these conversations.
Craig Kensley 00:08:53 – 00:09:30
How are these deals being structured? Why are they being structured in that way? How is it that we are going to partner? And really it’s a partnership conversation. So we are not, and we are not activists in space. We are development professionals. And so from that perspective we come and we say, well what does this partnership look like? So we are characterising something as a partnership. These are the hallmarks of partnership is that there is mutual benefit and mutual growth. So these are our goals. And I think that that’s where we are seeing.
Craig Kensley 00:09:30 – 00:10:21
We’re seeing a very interesting shift also from a policy perspective. And that’s why when I make the comment that the turnaround project is going to be funded from outside of Africa is because that’s what is appropriate. It is because that’s where what the development sector is seeing and also that’s our history and that’s where that’s where we come from. And maybe just the last statement there is certainly not a statement of disempowerment. It’s certainly not the statement of handing over agency and saying that we’re going to be saved from outside of Africa. It’s about taking our rightful place and saying, well this is our voice, this is what is appropriate. There’s a quote that I love, it says “help is not help if it’s what’s needed.”
Kami 00:10:21 – 00:10:22
Right? Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:10:22 – 00:10:40
And that’s so important. This is not charity, this is not anybody helping Africa. This is the global development project that’s playing out in Africa in a particular way. We are saying, here’s the clear proposition and this is the context. Let’s go.
Kami 00:10:40 – 00:10:50
Right. That’s a great perspective to have. Help is not help if it’s needed. Yeah. Because that is very true. It is what is happening globally. Really paying out in Africa as well.
Craig Kensley 00:10:50 – 00:11:07
It happens in our families too, right? I’m sorry to cut you, but isn’t it what happens in our families as well is that we’ll look and we’ll see an uncle, aunt, a cousin and we say, well, let’s help if that’s what they need. It’s not help, it’s our responsibility.
Kami 00:11:07 – 00:11:28
Right? Yeah. Now one of the main reasons why companies or organisations want to invest or develop communities is for philanthropy or charity. And this is a just cause. But what do you think people often miss when investing in community development?
Craig Kensley 00:11:28 – 00:12:26
They miss friends in development, they miss the professionals in the space, the people who are equipped to advise them responsibly to build the programs of impact and to shepherd the spin. Now that sounds like a clumsy plug for GrowZA today and our partners in the space. And I suppose that to some extent. But I think that’s what’s missing. You know, I think if you’re gonna build, if you want a wall built Kami, then you’re not going to ask the plumber to build a wall in front of your house, right? You’re going to go to a construction company. And I think that’s what’s missing. The basic kind of logic around development and sense that community work is something that can be done on a part time basis.
Craig Kensley 00:12:26 – 00:13:17
It’s something that can be done as I don’t want to say frivolously because that’s not fair, but I feel like it’s something that, like I do community work. You know, I spend time in communities kind of over the weekend. That’s charity, that’s not developed and there’s quite a distinction there. And even with charity, I mean you can have that whole conversation, but even with charity there are a couple of very clear guidelines that those who enter those spaces must be aware of. So to your question, what is missing? What is missing is the stewardship of development funding by those who generate it in terms of how it lands in communities. And I think there is.
Craig Kensley 00:13:17 – 00:13:39
I must say I’m very optimistic. It is shifting. It is something that is moving in what we consider to be the right direction. But certainly it’s something that can be accelerated and it is not something that is particularly complicated to accelerate. There are enough GrowZA’s out there to advise and to work with these partners.
Kami 00:13:39 – 00:14:32
Yeah, awesome. Now we’ve just touched on community development and I want to go deeper into that topic a little bit. In South Africa, we’ve been going through a bit of an unemployment crisis for several years now. We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world and we also have a shortage of skilled workers in various fields, despite there being a demand for employment. However, there also seems to be a lack of respect or like a perspective that certain industries or certain jobs are less professional than others. How can we bridge this gap? How do you think that the bridge between the need for employment and the perception of different types of jobs, research and jobs? How do we bridge that gap?
Craig Kensley 00:14:32 – 00:15:26
It’s a generational challenge on the one hand. So I’m going to start with the last set of comments you made and work back to the first. So I think it’s a generational challenge in terms of how work is viewed. I have no doubt I can make a safe bet, Kami, that what a good job looks like to your parents looks a very particular way. And that’s been the case I think for generations. It does come back from the dynamic around what dignity looks like. And that’s also shaping in a very interesting way because if you wore a suit to work, then you were doing well. If you were overall to work, then it’s a case of like, just keep going, you’ll get there someday, you know.
Craig Kensley 00:15:26 – 00:16:29
And that’s been a narrative that really loses and looms large in the minds of still our young people today. A root out of it again is multi pronged. There’s the reason we are in India on this research project is we’re busy working with the University of India and university in Sweden on the future of digital work. And again looking at the gig economy, for example, and the upside benefits of that, but then also the relative invisibility of workers on digital platforms. And so there’s a dignity piece within all of that that we really do need to look at. So opportunities are coming into the market, opportunities are becoming more abundant. How are we moving in that direction? So let’s look at a sector or sectoral channel, for example, we need 30,000 artisans a year in South Africa.
Craig Kensley 00:16:29 – 00:16:53
We currently train and produce about 15,000. So when we talk about, when we talk about a vacuum of skills that exists, it’s there. We need plumbers, electricians, etc. etc. Now that’s an unqualified statement. What type of plumbers, what type of electricians.
Kami 00:16:53 – 00:16:53
Right.
Craig Kensley 00:16:53 – 00:17:33
Etc. etc. So there’s for example, the opportunities that renewable energy brings. And I’m not just talking about kind of solar, PV, etc. etc. I’m talking about the massive influx of independent power producers into this country that are doing offshore oil and gas exploration, that are doing wind energy, solar energy, etc, etc, and all the allied industries that are associated with that. There are opportunities flooding into the country. And what we need to do is align from a skills perspective.
Craig Kensley 00:17:33 – 00:18:50
And then I think from an earlier point, it’s about shifting the generational perception of work and looking at the top end, what it is to live in this digital world, to transition this digital world, to make a life for ourselves. What is balance? Where work used to be the majority of our day and we kind of go home to sleep, that has also shifted at the top end of the market, that has shifted. So how do we reshape this concept of work on the one hand, and that’s somewhat philosophical, but then what is the economic activity project? So I think when we look at jobs, it’s something that we reach for. It’s very much on the top shelf, it’s attainable, we can do it, we can get there. I think something that’s on one of the lower shelves is this journey through understanding economic activity. How do we get our young people in particular economically active? And there are many practical levers in terms of moving us, moving us in that direction. So it begins to stack up, you know, as we go. I think there’s a fantastic growth story that is playing out.
Craig Kensley 00:18:50 – 00:19:32
We look at the crisis and it is a crisis. So I’m not underplaying that at all. But when we zoom out just half a click, the opportunity landscape is significant. It really is significant. And I think it’s about again, to your earlier point, imagine if development funders were exposed to that conversation, were curious about how do we stack that up. And there are many that are. But imagine that their spend wasn’t as discretionary as it is. And we could say in a focused way, this is the program that we buy into.
Craig Kensley 00:19:32 – 00:20:19
How are we building these layers? How are we stacking them on top of each other? And then communication professionals like yourself, we’re able to influence the national psyche, the national narrative around work, around jobs, around dignity and development professionals like ourselves are able to come and build these growth pathways. And then training institutions and institutions of higher learning are able to come in and make offerings. And then our schools kind of activate in a new way because we have the trickle down where there’s a deeper understanding of vocational guidance. Remember vocational guidance at school? Where… Are you of the vocational guidance generation or is it just me? You are life orientation, right?
Kami 00:20:19 – 00:20:35
No, we had it, we had it. I’m like an LO girl. But we did have these career drives where different universities, different industry professionals would come to our schools to sort of give insight into their different industries as well. I think that’s similar.
Craig Kensley 00:20:35 – 00:21:17
It was incredibly boring, wasn’t it? If you didn’t, if you had no idea what you wanted to do. Was that helpful is my question. I think to some people it would have been absolutely. So I’m not, I’m not writing that off. But again, the way in which we present opportunities, career opportunities like, yeah, I’ll take a bit that none of your classmates went to the boilermaker table, that I want to be a boilermaker, I want to be a plumber. Everybody said accountant, engineer, communications professional, lawyer. And this was not too long ago. This is still happening in our schools.
Craig Kensley 00:21:17 – 00:21:29
Yeah, this is still happening in our homes, around our dinner tables. This is still the conversation. And so, I mean, I can ramble on, but I think you get the point I’m clumsily trying to make.
Kami 00:21:29 – 00:22:36
Yes, actually, I think that is, that is actually very interesting because even now I see videos of people speaking about how like, content creation and things and like more digital roles are the new 9 to 5. And it’s like, are even our jobs, like dying out? Because pretty soon, like, I listen to my siblings’ generation and they’re not talking about being a lawyer, being an accountant, or being an artisan and none of that. It’s very much, I want to be an influencer, I want to be a YouTuber, I want to be a gamer, I want to be this. And yeah, it’s crazy how that works because it is very generational. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, tell me, what does true corporate social responsibility look like in action and what measures or indicators do you think corporations should be aligning the CSR strategy to fall in line with sort of what true corporate social responsibility looks like?
Craig Kensley 00:22:36 – 00:23:38
It’s a dangerous question that you’re asking me. Hand your money over to communities. Hand it over. What does that mean? Hand over the. I’m not saying control. I’m not saying be reckless. I’m saying let’s detach our corporate ego from funds meant for communities. So that’s that and now there are many, many strands there. So that could be viewed as a blunt statement. It really isn’t. But there are many, many strands. That is not saying let’s be irresponsible. That is not saying let’s introduce risk. That is not saying any of those things. But very often we get caught up in these loops where we are all primed when we put an opportunity on the table.
Craig Kensley 00:23:38 – 00:24:32
We are primed to call out what’s wrong with opportunity or call out what’s not going to work with opportunity. And then what compounds that is that we are rewarded, those of us who are able to find the most mistakes. Kami, so smart, she’s so analytical. She really. It’s not helpful. So again, I’m not saying let’s not point out where there’s risk and let’s not point where we’re irresponsible. But it certainly is a case of how do we make the case within this framework, within the governance environment, how do we make the case for supporting this community in a way that feeds into the broader development project? How do we find a way, as opposed to often the tone of that’s not going to work. Yeah, no, no.
Craig Kensley 00:24:32 – 00:25:05
You. I think when we come around the table and we say how do we hand over our money to the community? That’s intentional, if that’s where it’s coming from. That’s our North Star. To say this money needs to go, it needs to land in these communities in a real way. We then go to what people that understand how this works. I’m an accountant, I’m an engineer, I’m a lawyer, I’m a. And these are the chairs of these committees.
Kami 00:25:05 – 00:25:05
Right.
Craig Kensley 00:25:06 – 00:25:30
They sit and they decide from that perspective. And it becomes a very interesting conversation and proposition when we say, how do we introduce equity into this conversation around how resources are set? And then to the second part of your question, what are the principles? Because that was a sentiment. Right. And structure.
Kami 00:25:30 – 00:25:30
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:25:31 – 00:26:29
What are the principles that inform it? There’s some very progressive work that’s coming out of many sectors. One is around the Sustainable Development Goals. Even that has begun to shift because Sustainable Development Goals are pointing us towards 2050. We’re not going to meet those goals. But there are targets and indicators within the Sustainable Development Goals that have been, for the South African context, that have been domesticated. We work with Statistics South Africa on the United Nations Country Report which speaks about the domestication of indicators, what is our progress towards that and so on. And what’s interesting about what lives inside that project is the development data that’s coming from the ground. And we are saying, well, what are our challenges in terms of foundation phase literacy.
Craig Kensley 00:26:29 – 00:27:10
What are the challenges there? And we may be in a position where we’re saying, well, it’s a blind spot for us. We don’t know what we don’t know. And that may well be the first point of investment. I’m not saying it is. I’m saying it may as well just be a thought experiment. And so while sometimes we rush to paint early childhood development centres, maybe we should be talking to STATS SA saying, where’s the blind spots in terms of development data? How do we improve the quality of the system so that holistically we are able to move? And again, I think that’s a bit of a theme throughout this conversation. Right.
Craig Kensley 00:27:10 – 00:27:49
It’s looking for the indicators and playing according to your scorecard. So I’m pragmatic far as that is concerned. Companies that operate in South Africa are subject to the triple BEE scorecard. There are inherent opportunities in leveraging that scorecard. Multinational. All companies really are subject to a certain level of ESG, economic, social and governance compliance, environmental, social and government compliance. And what are the opportunities, communities within those frameworks to. To deliver value.
Craig Kensley 00:27:49 – 00:28:24
So I get principles and frameworks kind of all day. It’s about taking it to those tables, breaking them apart and then bringing a professional humility around saying, do I understand what I’m looking at and do I have enough information to inform a social investment plan? A social investment strategy. Do I have enough information? Am I the guy? If I’m not the guy, who can I go to? Well, I mean, you said it, not me.
Kami 00:28:24 – 00:28:44
Wow. Now, moving on from dangerous questions to lighter questions. One of your hobbies that you love is photography. Do you have a specific photograph or a video that is particularly close to your heart that you’ve taken?
Craig Kensley 00:28:44 – 00:29:11
I didn’t take enough pics of my mom. She passed away. She passed away two years ago. And I didn’t take enough photographs of her. And I think if… And I would never have taken enough. I mean, that’s just the nature of things. I think if I had. If I had, those would be my favourite. Those would be my favourite images, especially now.
Kami 00:29:11 – 00:29:12
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:29:12 – 00:29:24
Looking back and reminiscing and so on. So I think that’s my answer to that part of the question. There was a second part you asked.
Kami 00:29:24 – 00:29:26
No, no, no. That was the question.
Craig Kensley 00:29:26 – 00:29:49
There was a second part to my answer that it was immediately when you said that. It made me think of that. The second part of the answer that I want to give is that I think there’s a very interesting psychology in self documentation. I went to an event once. I don’t want to call it a course.
Craig Kensley 00:29:49 – 00:31:24
It was more of an event than a talk where somebody was talking about the psychology of the selfie. Right. And I think. And that sounds a little cheesy maybe, but I think that when we say selfie, we picture this. Right. But what was spoken about is the journey of self documentation, and that a selfie is not only what we imagine it to be. A selfie is about self documentation. Now, the process of self documentation is incredibly important and very interesting because it teaches you a lot about how you see yourself relative to how people view you. And we can go down that whole rabbit hole, but I think that’s been a very interesting process for me. So I really like traveling and I often travel alone, and so I take pictures of myself and to play with that is incredibly interesting. I mean, there’s a programme, if you or any of the listeners want to Google this, it’s called Will to Adorn. And it speaks about young urban youth in the US and their journey of self documentation and expression, the hip hop culture, fashion, spoken word, etc, etc. And it’s incredibly interesting. I watch my daughters, now 11 and 16. I watch how they self document.
Kami 00:31:24 – 00:31:24
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:31:24 – 00:31:38
And the store and the stories they tell through that. So for me, that is something I really enjoy. This is gonna sound weird. I enjoy taking pictures of myself. I don’t post all of them, but.
Craig Kensley 00:31:38 – 00:31:44
But the process of documenting yourself is an interesting one.
Kami 00:31:44 – 00:32:09
It’s pretty fun. Yeah. And I like the thing that you mentioned about sort of how you see yourself versus how other people perceive you, because it reminds me of, like this meme that went around for a while where everyone was talking about the picture you take of yourself versus the one your mom has on her Facebook. And it is very interesting to see the difference because it’s like two completely different perspectives.
Craig Kensley 00:32:09 – 00:32:41
Correct. And then also the reality, right. If you look at your camera roll and the judgement of, I’m not going to post that or not, that’s a flattering kind of depiction, and it’s interesting and when you let it kind of roll through your mind, there’s some interesting insights there is what I’m saying. So I’m, I’m ranting a little, we’re rambling a little bit, but yeah, so that’s, that’s what, that’s what goes in my head.
Kami 00:32:41 – 00:32:52
Do you have a specific place that you would like to go to, to take a couple photos or videos? Do you have a dream photography location?
Craig Kensley 00:32:52 – 00:34:12
I’m there right now. I’m in Delhi at the moment. And yes, it’s incredible. It’s a feast for the senses. So it’s certainly a place that I’m very much enjoying being. So that’s really cool. We’ve been very fortunate in that we’ve worked in every province in the country in South Africa and we have the most beautiful country, which is a cliche. Specifically, I think Hogsback in the Eastern Cape is underrated. I think people sleep on Hogsback. So that’s an incredible place. It rivals Drakensberg, the rival kind of Clarence in the Free State. It’s something that’s very special. So that is a really beautiful location. And then home is another one for me, whatever that means. And I ever shift. So when you look at your. When I look at the archive of photographs that I have and do like a location based photo on it, it’s incredible to see how my family, for example, has occupied the spaces that we call home. And it’s done and they. And being able to see that is really beautiful.
Craig Kensley 00:34:12 – 00:35:04
And then to see the people that have moved through and locations and the moments and the things that have happened. And maybe the last comment there is I think to be deliberate also about that documentation. When I come back, we can circle a little bit, but my mother was take a photograph. She always, she’d always say that all their eyes and this woman with the photograph. But that deliberate documentation is important because as you then you then look and see how spaces kind of develop and shape. There was a time when I lost weight and then I look at those photographs and I look at photographs now and I think like, yeah, okay, I can’t blame Covid anymore.
Kami 00:35:04 – 00:35:11
No, none of us can blame Covid anymore. Those kinds of pictures in particular, are super depressing.
Craig Kensley 00:35:11 – 00:35:14
For sure.
Kami 00:35:14 – 00:35:28
Okay, this has been such a lovely chat and before I let you go, I would love to play a round of hot takes with you. How it works is I only have hot takes. You’ll love this game.
Craig Kensley 00:35:28 – 00:35:30
Okay, let’s go.
Kami 00:35:30 – 00:35:55
I think you love this game. I’m gonna ask you a series of rapid fire questions and then you’re gonna answer with hot or not. And then if there’s one you want to explore a little bit more, then sure. Awesome. Tell me how you feel about street art
Craig Kensley 00:35:55 – 00:35:59
Hot. Should I explain? No. Okay, cool. Let’s just go. Let’s just go. So the second one. I missed it.
Kami 00:35:59 – 00:36:03
The second one is film cameras.
Craig Kensley 00:36:03 – 00:36:08
Film cameras.
Kami 00:36:08 – 00:36:10
Like the ones at the Strip. You know the ones.
Craig Kensley 00:36:10 – 00:36:23
Yeah, no, I know, exactly. They’re very cool. I think they’ve been mixed by hipsters. I think they have a place. But I really enjoy shooting on my phone.
Kami 00:36:23 – 00:36:24
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:36:24 – 00:36:33
The technology that’s in phones now is amazing. I think it has its place, but I don’t think it should ever be a prop, and I think it is a prop sometimes.
Kami 00:36:33 – 00:36:42
True, true. How do you feel about pineapple on pizza? Careful with your answer.
Craig Kensley 00:36:42 – 00:36:42
Hot, hot.
Kami 00:36:42 – 00:36:43
Really, okay.
Craig Kensley 00:36:43 – 00:36:50
Amazing. Who doesn’t want a pop of light sweetness and acidity?
Kami 00:36:50 – 00:36:52
With the savory?
Craig Kensley 00:36:52 – 00:36:58
Right, it’s like umami, right? It’s like the definition of umami. And people are like. I’m like, listen.
Kami 00:36:58 – 00:37:19
Yeah, it’s crazy how it is. Crazy. It’s crazy how that particular conversation actually puts people at odds so much. It’s like. It’s not that serious. It’s actually pretty good. It’s absolutely right. How do you feel about community outreach programmes?
Craig Kensley 00:37:19 – 00:37:38
Not hot. I think it’s unimaginative. Often. I think it’s often. It’s often contrived and it holds so much more potential. It’s often a wasted opportunity. Yeah. So I think the rest I said during our interview.
Kami 00:37:38 – 00:38:00
Yeah. And I actually share that sentiment, I think with the community especially with things like volunteer programmes as well. I think it’s great when it’s sustainable, it’s great when it’s consistent. But there’s a lot of seasonal things that happen and it’s like, well, it’s 12 months in the year and people need certain things 12 months in the year, so why not?
Craig Kensley 00:38:00 – 00:38:07
Yeah, yeah. There’s a saying in the development sector, “when grants become salaries, you have a problem.”
Kami 00:38:07 – 00:38:09
Right, Right. Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:38:09 – 00:38:14
And when charity or CSI becomes compliance, you have the same problem.
Kami 00:38:14 – 00:38:23
Right. Yeah. And that is very true. How do you feel about camping in the wilderness?
Craig Kensley 00:38:23 – 00:38:32
Alone hot. With my wife, not. She’s not a camper. She’s like high thread count linen.
Kami 00:38:32 – 00:38:35
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:38:35 – 00:38:50
So I’m a happily married man. I tend to maintain that status. And so, yeah, on the record, I’m gonna say as a couple and as a family man, not. But if it’s just me, then. Hot.
Kami 00:38:50 – 00:39:00
No. Take her glamping. It’s like a happy medium. You still have the, you know, really.
Craig Kensley 00:39:00 – 00:39:04
I can see a tent.
Kami 00:39:04 – 00:39:05
She’s like, no, thank you.
Craig Kensley 00:39:05 – 00:39:07
No, no.
Kami 00:39:07 – 00:39:17
How do you feel about socks to bed? Do you sleep with your socks on or off?
Craig Kensley 00:39:17 – 00:39:35
So it’s contextual. If it’s really good. Seamless socks, that’s highly breathable. I’m here, I’m here for it. I don’t have a problem in winter, we’re all good. But if it’s the socks you’ve been wearing all day. Absolutely not. If there’s no stand.
Craig Kensley 00:39:35 – 00:39:41
If it’s a standard kind of Chinatown special with this massive… Let’s not do that.
Kami 00:39:41 – 00:39:41
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:39:41 – 00:39:51
So it can work. It can work. Seamless, high quality, highly breathable. You’re good.
Kami 00:39:51 – 00:39:57
Oh, and that’s fair enough. I’m just like. I don’t know, they come off anyway.
Craig Kensley 00:39:57 – 00:40:00
Yeah.
Kami 00:40:00 – 00:40:04
How do you feel about Wes Anderson’s films?
Craig Kensley 00:40:04 – 00:40:39
Sho. Very good, Very good. I think what’s interesting now is that it’s interesting, that it kinda slipped into the mainstream consciousness. So it’s always interesting. It’s always interesting when that happens. And then I think when you follow kind of where Wes Anderson comes from and you look at influences like the Werner so and so on, it takes you, I dare say it takes you to a real place in terms of the genesis of that type of movie. Yeah, it’s great. It’s a mimetic, I think is what it’s called.
Craig Kensley 00:40:39 – 00:40:44
And it draws people into deeper conversations. I think that’s really cool.
Kami 00:40:44 – 00:40:48
How do you feel about urban farming?
Craig Kensley 00:40:48 – 00:41:31
Hot. I think we’re sleeping on it. I think it’s going to become increasingly important from a sustainability perspective, of course, but that’s quite conservative in state. But I think also in terms of the hyper locality of the communities they’re building and the fact that, I mean, you obviously, I’m sure you’re familiar with the concept of like a 15 minute city and so on. So the lives that we build are becoming more and more concentrated and there’s an argument against that, of course, but also the hyper locality of the supply chain. So the fact that we’re able to feed ourselves and each other.
Craig Kensley 00:41:31 – 00:41:58
But then the last comment, the dynamic in terms of community. The dynamic in terms of family that that brings. Yeah, I think, I think it is predominantly what is slept on. So we can meet all of these other kinds of outcomes, which I think is great. And it also feeds into the narrative that we were talking about in terms of young people becoming farmers. Yeah, that’s not seen as something that’s viable or something that is sexy or attractive or whatever the case is.
Craig Kensley 00:41:58 – 00:42:14
So I think urban farms bring that closer and we need those kind of playgrounds for young people to kind of touch. And I think the last dynamic is it also allows for young people to interact with older people.
Kami 00:42:14 – 00:42:16
Right.
Craig Kensley 00:42:16 – 00:42:42
That’s incredibly important because the conversations that happen when young people and old people kind of interact, I think that’s also the beauty of artisan training because you have these master carpenters and master plumbers and master electricians that have seen many summers and here is a kind of green youngster coming to you and he gets to hang out with uncle. You know. That’s a good thing.
Kami 00:42:42 – 00:43:10
Yeah, that is a very good thing. I think the thing with urban farms, though, is a lot of people, I find, are intimidated by the idea of just raising plants in general. I see it even in like the plant mom and dad community where like people get their first houseplants and it’s a thing. It’s like, oh my gosh, how do I keep this thing alive? How do I. And I’m like, no, you can develop a green thumb. You can. It’s pretty hard to kill a plant. And you can.
Kami 00:43:10 – 00:43:18
From that, I think you can grow the confidence to sort of venture out into growing your own herbs and then your own this and your own that. Yeah, I think it’s cool.
Craig Kensley 00:43:18 – 00:43:42
But I also like how this translates and loops back to our previous conversation. Would you start an urban garden or an urban farm without consulting a farmer? No, but you would go into a community and spend money slapping paint on the wall, without consulting anyone.
Kami 00:43:42 – 00:43:57
Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s actually a great point. Yeah, how do you feel about movies that are over three hours long?
Craig Kensley 00:43:57 – 00:44:14
Oh, it’s contextual. I don’t know when the last time was when I watched a movie that’s over three hours long. Yeah. Yeah. I think it depends. I think it’s brave. I’m here for the creative pursuit and for people packaging things they love.
Craig Kensley 00:44:14 – 00:44:18
I don’t know that it’s going to be a commercial success.
Kami 00:44:18 – 00:44:19
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:44:19 – 00:44:43
But I think what’s interesting is kind of the resurgence of long form content and how audiences are sitting down. And so maybe there’s a move toward that. And podcasts kind of have done it incredibly well and we understand why. Maybe there’s a move back there. I don’t know, maybe.
Kami 00:44:43 – 00:45:11
I mean, I tried to watch the Cleopatra film with Elizabeth Taylor and that’s like about just over four hours and it was impossible. And it actually was impossible. I think the reason it works so well with podcasts and things is because there’s so much dynamism there. Like the conversation flows in different directions and whereas with the movie it’s that one storyline and we’re sort of moving into like this one direction.
Craig Kensley 00:45:11 – 00:45:45
Maybe something really interesting here because I think it’s about building a world of context around it. So if you, for example, read up and did some research on the history of Cleopatra and the essence that the filmmaker was trying to communicate, that’s really interesting. When we go to places like the Apartheid museum, for example. Sorry, for the example. But you get from the Apartheid museum and you do some reading before, then you go and see and you have lines of inquiry. It’s just. You could spend all day there.
Kami 00:45:45 – 00:45:47
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:45:47 – 00:46:34
I had an interesting, interesting experience. We had the opportunity to visit the palace of Versailles and I hadn’t watched the series and somebody that was traveling with us had watched the series and was having this parallel experience right next to me and I’m like, what is going on? I mean, vivid almost hallucinations, you know, oh my God, this is the hall of mirrors. When you book and then somebody else and watch the series. Do you remember when they did this and that? I was like, okay, it’s pretty, and I have a vague understanding of the history, but they had this contextual kind of rootedness. Yeah, I think if you bring that to a three hour movie, it’s a different game.
Kami 00:46:34 – 00:46:52
I mean, it could work. Cleopatra is like one of my favourite historical figures. So going in, I knew a lot about Cleopatra. I was just like, I don’t love her this much. How do you feel about drone shots?
Craig Kensley 00:46:52 – 00:47:32
Drone shots? Oh, I love drones for many, many reasons. And that can be another kind of conversation we have. I’m involved with the drone academy, where we teach young people to become commercial drone pilots as a pathway into aviation. So part for that reason, I love drone photography. I think what’s also great about it is how it does… Do you remember when we used to have aerial shots and we used to be like, are they a helicopter or. This was a high budget kind of thing. Now, how it’s become accessible is crazy. And then now how in Google Earth Studio you can like programme fake drone shots? I don’t know if you’ve seen that.
Kami 00:47:42 – 00:47:43
No.
Craig Kensley 00:47:43 – 00:47:53
Like, yeah, on Google Earth Studio, you can frame up like quite realistic 3D Google Earth maps drone shots.
Kami 00:47:53 – 00:47:53
Yeah.
Craig Kensley 00:47:53 – 00:48:08
So if you want. You want a drone shot of a famous stadium in the world, Google Earth Studio, you programme it in and it’ll orbit the stadium like a drone shot. And you have your drone shot without putting a drone in the sky.
Kami 00:48:08 – 00:48:34
That’s actually so cool. I’m gonna check that out. Thank you so much for being here today, Craig. It was so great to have you. I hope that you are going to have the best time in India. And before I let you go, I want you to plug in your socials so that everybody can sort of find you. Follow the journey of Grow ZA and what you guys are up to at the moment.
Craig Kensley 00:48:34 – 00:48:53
Perfect. Thanks for that. I appreciate it. You can find us on Instagram @Grow.za. So if you just search GrowZA, you’ll find us across all platforms. If you search hashtag GrowZA, are hashtags still a thing? I’m not quite sure. It was quite…
Craig Kensley 00:48:53 – 00:49:10
So hashtag GrowZA and you’ll find our stuff. We have a terrible TikTok account that I’m kind of tinkering with myself. But Instagram is the place to find us and then our website GrowZA. co.za.
Kami 00:49:10 – 00:49:13
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here today, Craig.
Craig Kensley 00:49:13 – 00:49:13
Kami. I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really enjoyed it as well. And thank you.